Comments on: How to Get Paid by the Church http://bradleyaharmon.com/2009/12/how-to-get-paid-by-the-church/ Christ Centered Small Business Principles Sat, 31 Jul 2010 14:55:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Brad Harmon http://bradleyaharmon.com/2009/12/how-to-get-paid-by-the-church/comment-page-2/#comment-1038 Brad Harmon Mon, 25 Jan 2010 19:43:51 +0000 http://bradleyaharmon.com/?p=2071#comment-1038 I really like the advice not to be "wishy washy" about your fees. Oftentimes, we can confuse the client if we are not up front and clear about our services and fees. I also appreciate your description of the struggle that entrepreneurs go through when dealing with the church. I wish more church leaders were in tune with this struggle. I really like the advice not to be "wishy washy" about your fees. Oftentimes, we can confuse the client if we are not up front and clear about our services and fees. I also appreciate your description of the struggle that entrepreneurs go through when dealing with the church. I wish more church leaders were in tune with this struggle.

]]> By: Melissa http://bradleyaharmon.com/2009/12/how-to-get-paid-by-the-church/comment-page-2/#comment-1034 Melissa Mon, 25 Jan 2010 04:22:08 +0000 http://bradleyaharmon.com/?p=2071#comment-1034 This is what I think. The provider should be assumed to get paid. The church needs to assume paying someone. Donations should not be expected, but should come from the heart of the person doing the work. One thing I've found is this:I am single and I provide graphic design and photography services to churches. If one is married, not working and has the luxury of a husband being the breadwinner (or vice versa), then one could donate their time more easily, or even consider a smaller salary. As a single person, forget about it. Single people really don't have that option. I make my living with no spare time, because I'm already volunteering doing church ministries, and the rest of the time is sleeping and working, barely having a social life. So any work for a church has to be paying jobs for me to live on. In any case, I've had good luck getting paid from churches with a good reputation to follow. You have to draw boundaries and not be wishy washy if a church approaches you to do work. I've learned that you have to say right up front something like " thanks for considering me for this, but I have to tell you that I'm not in a position to offer up ministry work at this time. It sounds like an exciting project, but I can only service paying jobs, but here is a reference of someone who might be able to help you.." 9 times out of 10, it sparks a discussion of at least negotiating some form of fair payment. It's tough because I think most Christians like myself would prefer to support our churches for free, but the reality is, we aren't in heaven yet, and that money issue has to be addressed. The real thing behind it is TIME. Most people who don't specialize in what you offer have no idea of how much time is really need to do what is asked. Time cannot be manufactured on an assembly line. Once it's gone, it's gone. I think that needs to be respected too. It's a little tricky. This is what I think. The provider should be assumed to get paid. The church needs to assume paying someone. Donations should not be expected, but should come from the heart of the person doing the work.

One thing I've found is this:I am single and I provide graphic design and photography services to churches.
If one is married, not working and has the luxury of a husband being the breadwinner (or vice versa), then one could donate their time more easily, or even consider a smaller salary. As a single person, forget about it. Single people really don't have that option.
I make my living with no spare time, because I'm already volunteering doing church ministries, and the rest of the time is sleeping and working, barely having a social life. So any work for a church has to be paying jobs for me to live on.
In any case, I've had good luck getting paid from churches with a good reputation to follow. You have to draw boundaries and not be wishy washy if a church approaches you to do work. I've learned that you have to say right up front something like " thanks for considering me for this, but I have to tell you that I'm not in a position to offer up ministry work at this time. It sounds like an exciting project, but I can only service paying jobs, but here is a reference of someone who might be able to help you.."
9 times out of 10, it sparks a discussion of at least negotiating some form of fair payment.
It's tough because I think most Christians like myself would prefer to support our churches for free, but the reality is, we aren't in heaven yet, and that money issue has to be addressed. The real thing behind it is TIME. Most people who don't specialize in what you offer have no idea of how much time is really need to do what is asked. Time cannot be manufactured on an assembly line. Once it's gone, it's gone. I think that needs to be respected too. It's a little tricky.

]]> By: Brad Harmon http://bradleyaharmon.com/2009/12/how-to-get-paid-by-the-church/comment-page-2/#comment-545 Brad Harmon Thu, 03 Dec 2009 14:51:50 +0000 http://bradleyaharmon.com/?p=2071#comment-545 Karen, What a great organization! I would love to do a blog post and spread the news about your group. Who do I need to contact to get permission to use your logo and pictures from your website in my post? Karen, What a great organization! I would love to do a blog post and spread the news about your group. Who do I need to contact to get permission to use your logo and pictures from your website in my post?

]]> By: Karen http://bradleyaharmon.com/2009/12/how-to-get-paid-by-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-544 Karen Thu, 03 Dec 2009 14:32:50 +0000 http://bradleyaharmon.com/?p=2071#comment-544 Christian entrepreneurs may want to consider being a "Cheerful Giver" by visiting <a href="http://www.cheerfulgivers.org" rel="nofollow">www.cheerfulgivers.org</a> Christian entrepreneurs may want to consider being a “Cheerful Giver” by visiting http://www.cheerfulgivers.org

]]> By: Brad Harmon http://bradleyaharmon.com/2009/12/how-to-get-paid-by-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-542 Brad Harmon Thu, 03 Dec 2009 14:03:30 +0000 http://bradleyaharmon.com/?p=2071#comment-542 It's why I always invoice clients and the church for any work I do, even when I list a discount or credit zeroing out the amount due. Many innocently do not know how much time or effort is involved, and we tend to play down our efforts to try and appear humble (I don't think that works though). <br><br>It's not a "here, look at what I've done" motive when I invoice, but I think many would be surprised at how much time and effort some of their requests require. Sometimes, too, we build a mansion when all they wanted was a sandcastle. I think if they knew you were going to build the mansion they would stop you to let you know they only wanted something much smaller.<br><br>If your point is that the church has been invoiced and simply refuses to pay, then that is another matter altogether. Unfortunately, I have heard too many cases of this happening too. It's why I always invoice clients and the church for any work I do, even when I list a discount or credit zeroing out the amount due. Many innocently do not know how much time or effort is involved, and we tend to play down our efforts to try and appear humble (I don't think that works though).

It's not a “here, look at what I've done” motive when I invoice, but I think many would be surprised at how much time and effort some of their requests require. Sometimes, too, we build a mansion when all they wanted was a sandcastle. I think if they knew you were going to build the mansion they would stop you to let you know they only wanted something much smaller.

If your point is that the church has been invoiced and simply refuses to pay, then that is another matter altogether. Unfortunately, I have heard too many cases of this happening too.

]]> By: Brad Harmon http://bradleyaharmon.com/2009/12/how-to-get-paid-by-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-541 Brad Harmon Thu, 03 Dec 2009 13:54:31 +0000 http://bradleyaharmon.com/?p=2071#comment-541 You are a wise and generous pastor. If I ever venture up to Arkansas I am going to have to stop by your church. I've found, and experienced, that it isn't usually the pastor that causes the issues. <br><br>It tends to be the self-appointed "faithful" who won't give up their God-ordained spot in the pew for a visitor. The ones who mentally keep track (well I hope it's only mentally) of who attends every work night, church function, fund raiser, etc. I'm sure you know who I'm talking about (now I'm getting brave). I'm a recovering religious self-appointed "faithful" church member myself so I know of what I speak. You are a wise and generous pastor. If I ever venture up to Arkansas I am going to have to stop by your church. I've found, and experienced, that it isn't usually the pastor that causes the issues.

It tends to be the self-appointed “faithful” who won't give up their God-ordained spot in the pew for a visitor. The ones who mentally keep track (well I hope it's only mentally) of who attends every work night, church function, fund raiser, etc. I'm sure you know who I'm talking about (now I'm getting brave). I'm a recovering religious self-appointed “faithful” church member myself so I know of what I speak.

]]> By: Leon de Rijke http://bradleyaharmon.com/2009/12/how-to-get-paid-by-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-536 Leon de Rijke Thu, 03 Dec 2009 10:30:54 +0000 http://bradleyaharmon.com/?p=2071#comment-536 Interesting point to address. I heard from graphic (web)designers who found it really difficult to get paid by (their) churches for the work they did. Often people don't recognize the work someone puts in it to create value. Interesting point to address. I heard from graphic (web)designers who found it really difficult to get paid by (their) churches for the work they did. Often people don't recognize the work someone puts in it to create value.

]]> By: brandonacox http://bradleyaharmon.com/2009/12/how-to-get-paid-by-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-532 brandonacox Thu, 03 Dec 2009 03:20:27 +0000 http://bradleyaharmon.com/?p=2071#comment-532 Brad, you're a brave man, my friend, to approach this subject. I agree with you that a business person should be respected as such. We have members who use their gifts and don't charge us, but as the Pastor, I always offer and insist on getting an invoice. I make it clear to them that it's the right thing to do and that they should have a clear conscience. Brad, you're a brave man, my friend, to approach this subject. I agree with you that a business person should be respected as such. We have members who use their gifts and don't charge us, but as the Pastor, I always offer and insist on getting an invoice. I make it clear to them that it's the right thing to do and that they should have a clear conscience.

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